Post Your Rant of the Day

[Drubbing]

I'm getting old, so we need such a thread. I think.

As some of you may know, I'm learning guitar, and sometimes frequent a large US forum. Unfortunately, it's like other large forums. Full of shit. And lots of random topics too. But what shit me today was a thread cropped up that waned to express how happy the poster was that Religion and Politics discussion wasn't tolerated, as it makes the place so 'tolerant'. Yeah, that makes sense.

I mentioned that many Australian forums don't censor such topics, and suggested discussion of these things was actually important - even if only at home. I also noted that our current PM is female, childless, unmarried and Atheist - something that is only likely to happen in the US when aliens abduct all the males (didn't add that, I was being restrained).

I asked what the avg voter turnout in the US, by way of making a general point about the importance of discussing politics. They canned the whole thread. Not just my post, which could have been expected, but the thread.

The responses to My New Gun Day, where a dude shows off his new weapon, hit 3 pages at a blistering speed. Now, I like Americans. I've been there, and I had to buy something from Apple on the phone the other day and was put through to US customer service (impressive, too). They are just like the rest of us in so many ways. But as a cultural mass, I really think they're fucked sometimes.

 

[Johnus]

Familiarity breeds contempt. With all the press, tv and radio coverage you've been able to see our faults. Knowing someone that way you tend to loss any respect that you may have had for them.
America Media feels that they need to do this to sell Copy. They overlook the way it makes us seem to the rest of the world. Money. Money. Money!

 

[Nick the Knife]

There are certain aspects of US culture I'm a big fan of - have never been able to kick my adolescent penchant for the NBA & NFL. But the stain of US foreign policy on the world post - WW2 is quite simply horrendous.

Whilst the fascade they'd like to roll out and have folks believe is that they've always acted for democracy, human rights and the greater good the sad reality when you peel through the BS and get to the facts is everything they've done has been for their own strategic interests (as well as those of the stakeholders who bankrolled the big boys into power). And the cost of this on innocent people's lives etc can be damned....

The blatant duplicity and 'do as I say, but not as I do' approach of the USA's foreign policy is borderline nauseating if people take the time to look at the simple indisputable facts - but alas in this modern age people have a VERY short attention span & thus forget things very quickly or simply don't care as they feel the victims have a different coloured skin/religion/language/dress sense to them and thus don't really care.

Alas Australia has its head so far up the backside of the US it's like the pathetic kid at school who's so desperate to be liked by the Alpha male it perceives to be the cool kid that it ignores all the obvious shortfalls & problems in an attempt to get acceptance. So we're along for the ride for as long as it benefits the USA anyway.

An interesting sidenote in it all is that there's very well documented parallels between the decline of the Roman Empire and where the USA is at now. Greed and dreams of global domination having spread it too thin and taxed its state coffers dry. Massive debts and social decline within. Hanging on to an ever declining technological advantage over its rivals. etc etc.

Let me highlight I don't have a fundamental issue with the average American citizen but instead with their governments foreign policy, which in a fundamentally flawed duopoly of a political system & relatively inwardly focused society like the USA really can't be blamed entirely on the for plebs who voted them in.

Instead its the social & business elite who have for the past century dominated the USA's government & thus it's actions.....absolutely terrifying how long people like Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, the Bush family, the Kennedy's etc have basically decided what gets done. And you've still got their disciples & students in the machine on both sides of politics as well as the massive lobby groups etc which want to squeeze every last dollar from the planet whilst they can.

Seriously messed up stuff......incredibly complex as well as all the colonial powers hold a LOT of blame for the worlds current ills, the USA is just the latest and greatest criminal in this regard.

Oh and just in case someone wants to say,"You ingrate, we saved your ass in WW2!" - sorry popular mythology - if they researched the matter deeping that just watching Discovery channel they'd find that the USA (both the people & pollies) wanted NOTHING to do with WW2 as they were still smarting over WW1 (which WAS one of their few genuine attempts to help the world out) & really didn't care what Germany and Japan did as long as they didn't touch their assets & colonies (e.g the Philippines). But Japan let its ego get ahead of itself, did a stupid short termed action in attacking Pearl Harbour and well the rest is history.

So the US only got into the Pacific theatre for its own interests - anyway again thats a very complex discussion in itself but suffice to say the US did what it wanted for its own purposes - any other side effects from these actions were not the motivators.

Future prediction: China and Russia will form a very close strategic partnership (China has the human masses with everything that comes with this, massive state capital & momentum) Russia has almost endless natural resources of all types. They'll put the squeeze on the USA very slowly to a point where its global influence is supplanted by them within 20yrs.

Anyway fun fun fun.....

 

[Mong.]

As some of you may know, I'm learning guitar, and sometimes frequent a large US forum. Unfortunately, it's like other large forums. Full of shit.

Is it Ultimate-Guitar by any chance? The attitudes on UG seem pretty similar to B&B in many respects, a lot of people who think they know everything and want to be internet heroes. I stopped frequenting there 2-3 years ago because I ended up in the same argument every time I went on about gear being specific to genres and styles. The bullshit inability to recognise that other people might get a different result to you made discussion really hard sometimes. No such thing as YMMV when I was there. If there was ever a circumstance where it was relevant though, music would have to be up there. Nearly everything is subjective; gear, tone, technique, style.

Two guys picking up the same guitar won't sound the same, so why any dickhead conclude that you can only play particular styles with particular gear? What makes it so black and white that you can declare entire brands unsuitable for specific genres just because someone who hasn't even used that kit has heard a few sound clips and thinks that it won't work? Why do people feel the need to achieve glory and worship on the internet by talking out their arse about something they know fuck all about?

Why does it piss me off so much? Shit like this pushed me towards not playing music, it's a bad thing to look back and think that you stopped doing something you enjoyed because a bunch of irrelevant idiots eroded away your passion. Yeah, I'm a bit bitter about fuckin' UG...

 

[SmallYetDeadly]

I feel a bit sorry for the US. They are always caught it a damned if they do damned if they don't situation.

They have made some bad foreign policy for sure but the only reason it creates such a fuss is that they are(probably soon to be were) the big dog on campus.

I also think you are underselling the US effort in WWII Nick. They were making large contributions of food and materials to the Allies(UK) before Pearl Harbour.

Hitler’s declaration of war was also the result of American help towards Britain and other allies
This assistance included $1428 million in material aid in the form of Lend Lease prior to Pearl Harbour - $1,082 million going to Britain - and direct military action. President Roosevelt had given orders that any German ship found in the eastern Atlantic should be shot at on sight. This meant the United States had more or less entered the ‘War of the Atlantic’, the crucial battle between Britain and Germany for Britain’s key sea routes. Anticipating entering the conflict, the US army grew massively from 267,767 personnel in 1940 to 1,460,998 by mid-1941 – an increase of 446%.

I'm not 100% sure but 1.4 billion was probably a fair bit of spondoola in the 1940's...

The US is by no means perfect but I'd rather have them as allies than the Germans or Japanese as Overlords...

 

[Drubbing]

Is it Ultimate-Guitar by any chance? The attitudes on UG seem pretty similar to B&B in many respects, a lot of people who think they know everything and want to be internet heroes. I stopped frequenting there 2-3 years ago because I ended up in the same argument every time I went on about gear being specific to genres and styles. The bullshit inability to recognise that other people might get a different result to you made discussion really hard sometimes. No such thing as YMMV when I was there. If there was ever a circumstance where it was relevant though, music would have to be up there. Nearly everything is subjective; gear, tone, technique, style.

No, but everything you describe is on display on pretty much any large forum, regardless of topic. and by coincidence, they seem to be US-based. I'm not saying it's a US thing though. Big forums seem to have that sort of culture. You do get same thing on any guitar forums though; this gear better with that music. If you're interested in music enough to know what your favourite players use, you'll see none of them conform to 'forum rules'.

 

[Pjotr]

There are certain aspects of US culture I'm a big fan of - have never been able to kick my adolescent penchant for the NBA & NFL. But the stain of US foreign policy on the world post - WW2 is quite simply horrendous................

Well yes there is all that but, let's be honest, every western civilisation including Australia can lay claim to similar historical scenarios. What gets me is what they've done at home with all that might and power and money. You can roll out statistics such as incarceration rate, wealth distribution, poverty levels etc that would embarrass most third world countries. And regards the voter turnout, I think it was pretty respectable at between 60-70% considering the time and effort it takes in the US. Apparently the ballot paper in Florida was 12 pages long becuse they use a general election as an opportunity to vote on dozens of other things too. A couple of states just legalized dope using the presidential ballot paper. There are stories of people lining up for 4-5 hrs. I think most people in Australia would rather pay the fine for not registering. Anyhow I hope it doesn't but I can see this thread going southwards pretty quickly.

 

[Pjotr]

........They have made some bad foreign policy for sure but the only reason it creates such a fuss is that they are(probably soon to be were) the big dog on campus.

That doesn't explain the fact that the USA has bombed 40 countries since WWII.

...........They were making large contributions of food and materials to the Allies(UK) before Pearl Harbour.

I do believe they got every cent of that back plus interest (a moderate one to be sure).

 

[Drubbing]

Anyhow I hope it doesn't but I can see this thread going southwards pretty quickly.

His wasn't meant to be an anti US rant thread. Just a general rant one. Rest assured, if things get nasty, the mods will be all over it. You know how they love that.

 

[gthomas04]

His wasn't meant to be an anti US rant thread. Just a general rant one. Rest assured, if things get nasty, the mods will be all over it. You know how they love that.

Methinks Drubbing can feel No. 2 coming on - a whole thread maybe - lets keep this on the barely civilized side of respectable gents and watch the Mod sputter.
As far as the United States goes it seems to me to be one of the most schizoid nations that have been in a long time. The same country whose culture encourage Microsoft, Apple Space Shuttles Men on the Moon also gave Vietnam Cambodia Iraq 2 and Afghanistan 1.
Great Blues and Country and Western etc etc.

 

[Nick the Knife]

I feel a bit sorry for the US. They are always caught it a damned if they do damned if they don't situation.

Sorry pal but we might have to agree to disagree on this one. There's a few high profile situations where I'll grant this was the case, but the VAST majority of US foreign policy for the past 70yrs hasn't been like this. Perfect example all the democratically elected governments they've had a significant hand in overthrowing because they didn't like the choices the people made. Sad thing is hundreds of thousands of folks like you and me who didn't give a toss about the big picture ended up 6ft under because of it......and history has totally forgotten them as they were just that, normal average folks.

Be one of the poor folks that was mudered in 9/11, you'll be remembered forever.....but be one of the thousands kidnapped & tortured by in Chile or countless latin american countries, Cambodia etc and sorry you're not even known.

They have made some bad foreign policy for sure but the only reason it creates such a fuss is that they are(probably soon to be were) the big dog on campus.

Dunno about this - you want to invade sovereign states, overthrown democratically elected governments and have military bases in more countries around the world than the British, Ottoman & Roman empires COMBINED then you've kind of got to have the buck stop with you when you do actions that go completely against morality & what you're publically spouting to the world & your own masses.

I also think you are underselling the US effort in WWII Nick. They were making large contributions of food and materials to the Allies(UK) before Pearl Harbour.

Mate, I didn't even talk about the rest of WW2, rather I was specifically talking about the Pacific theatre as its a fave comeback for Yanks when you criticise them on something that they perceive they bailed Australia out in WW2. I didn't say they didn't do anything - I said they didn't want to get involved militarily, and thats 100% correct. They were happy to provide a stack of support but getting actual boots on the ground, so to speak was not supported by the US public.

ANyway I'm not debating their role in WW2 as thats well documented and to be fair really one of the last times they played much of an admirable role on the world stage. Post-WW2 they tended to get involved in some very dubious conflicts for some very dubious reasons, thats more my beef.

 

[Mark1966]

Quick, MODS - shut this down!

 

[JugV2]

You're the mod for this one Mark.

I don't see any harm in healthy debate. We're all Aussie and able to discuss things without getting nasty, surely?
That's one of the things that makes P&C stand out from other forums.

 

[Pjotr]

There's no need to shut it down. It's a general rant thread. It just started with the most rantable subject out there.

I've got a rant: Sick to death of my dog dropping hair all over the place. I swear I'm either going to feed it back to him and save on the stupid prices they charge for dog food, or collect it, make a shaving brush out of it and give it to Drubbing for a try out.

 

[Drubbing]

IBTL?

P&Cers should be able to handle it. Don't make a liar of me about small forums. I think large forums make it easier to people to get too worked up because the anonymity is greater, and they feel comfortable being rude for the sake of it.

Whatever the details of US foreign policy over the last 40 years, it's safe to say their role as self-appointed world police doesn't sit well with a lot of the nations, and those they're trying to 'set free'. Many Americans don't understand that nations who been under various dictatorships and fiefdoms for hundreds of years, simply can't be given a vote and 'be free'. Some citizens will want it (badly), and others see the political breakdown as an opportunity to weak havoc and establish their own power structures. Instead of one bad dude in charge, you create hundreds of them.

Once you start meddling in complex regional politics (and religion) you get what we've got in the middle east right now.

 

[Drubbing]

There's no need to shut it down. It's a general rant thread. It just started with the most rantable subject out there.

I've got a rant: Sick to death of my dog dropping hair all over the place. I swear I'm either going to feed it back to him and save on the stupid prices they charge for dog food, or collect it, make a shaving brush out of it and give it to Drubbing for a try out.

I'll have no truck with dogs that eat quality headphones. Given that, why are you bothering to buy him pet food? Just feed him household items you don't want. Start with the $1.75 boars...

 

[gthomas04]

I'll have no truck with dogs that eat quality headphones. Given that, why are you bothering to buy him pet food? Just feed him household items you don't want. Start with the $1.75 boars...

Or the kids they just cost you money

 

[Mark1966]

You're the mod for this one Mark.

Oh yeah, I am too :weird:

I don't see any harm in healthy debate. We're all Aussie and able to discuss things without getting nasty, surely?
That's one of the things that makes P&C stand out from other forums.

Well we are not ALL Aussies but it should be OK. maybe my turn to wade in then ...

In defence of policy makers and political decisions

When I was doing my Masters many years ago I was reading an article that had an extensive interview with Henry Kissenger. For those to young to be aware Kissinger served as National Security Advisor and Secretary of State under President Richard Nixon, and continued as Secretary of State under Nixon's successor Gerald Ford. Prior to these roles he was an academic and widely recognised as one of the greatest minds of his time.

In the interview he was talking about his first year as National Security Advisor and Secretary of State. Now revered as one of the best he spoke of how he nearly quit only a few month in because it was so hard. He was scary smart but used to dealing with issues that had answers and where you could reason out a solution based on the evidence. In the White House you had to make so many decisions a day that you had little time for in-depth analysis. All the easy decisions had already been made down the line so the ones he was faced with were the tough ones. These were often the ones where there was no solution, there were only least worst options. While Rumsfeld was lampooned for his 'known unknowns and unknown unknowns' comment that was exactly what it was like according to Kissenger - making decisions that had to be made in the imprecision driven by the urgency. This was confronting for a guy who was the best of the best and used to being right.

This rings true based on my experience with a few MPs here, sometimes in a fairly close and frank way. I've have the privilege of being on the inside of some decisions that have been tough, the least worst outcome is sometimes the best. At other times the best outcome you know to be unobtainable because of opposition from opposition, media and/or lobby groups - so you work with the cards you are dealt. Despite your best efforts sometimes this merely results in sustained criticism from the media anyway!

In the geo-political context the degree of difficulty increases exponentially!

I'm not so naive that I don't think sectional interests are at play but the more I've been involved first hand and up close with MPs the more impressed I am with most of them from most sides of politics. There are tossers but they are obvious. The media has an agenda too.

So I cut governments a bit more slack now.

 

[Johnus]

No offense taken by the above comments. Impressed with the insight shown. Being on my second set of kids I've had children in school since the 1970's. my daughter is now in 6th grade. One of the issues that I can say that I have first hand knowledge of is the almost total lack of American or world history now being taught in our schools.
You've seen this in our current elections where details were the last thing that any candidate want to talk about.
Newspapers and News Magazines are on their way out. Television is becoming the only source of news. You saw that one of the major issues that one of the Political Party's wanted was to do away with was Public Broadcasting . Reason it gave both sides of an issue and they could control it with their money.
Most of your comments maybe correct, but the majority of American would know what you were talking about.

 

[Mark1966]

No offense taken by the above comments. Impressed with the insight shown. Being on my second set of kids I've had children in school since the 1970's. my daughter is now in 6th grade. One of the issues that I can say that I have first hand knowledge of is the almost total lack of American or world history now being taught in our schools.

I studied a couple of subjects at a US college (our university level) in the late 1990s. One of the subjects was Recent American History and Politics. The textbook I thought was about high school level in Australia. The lecturer agreed it was poor and at that level from his experience in Australia but indicated it was one of the best available. His observation was that schools in the US are very reluctant to fail students or make subjects too rigorous. The paperwork involved in appeals etc is too complicated!

You've seen this in our current elections where details were the last thing that any candidate want to talk about.

Yes, Sarah Pallin is not the only one ....

Newspapers and News Magazines are on their way out. Television is becoming the only source of news. You saw that one of the major issues that one of the Political Party's wanted was to do away with was Public Broadcasting . Reason it gave both sides of an issue and they could control it with their money.
Most of your comments maybe correct, but the majority of American would know what you were talking about.

There is lots of academic research including self identification by journalists that put them to the left of centre politically. Those involved in public broadcasting tend to be even further left. So conservative parties (Republican or Coalition here) are usually not big fans of public broadcasting.