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Harsh edge

bald as

bald as

ARKO! dealer & walking ECG
I was given a very old Gotta recently and yesterday correctly set a bevel and proceeded through the stones and finished on a Jnat with water. The edge looked perfect, in fact my eyes bleed it was near perfect. Hair test was remarkable so how did it shave? Horrible!!

There were no micro chips, no false edges, it seriously looked perfect but was the harshest shave I have every had. I can still feel it this morning.

I didn't cut myself, the shave was even and super close but so uncomfortable during and after. The blade literally felt twice as sharp as normal. I love a sharp blade but this really felt uber sharp.

I didn't and don't use pastes and the strop is the same one I use for other blades.

I intend to take it back to the Jnat today and return it to the pre strop finish and then give it about 5-10 laps on my Coticule with oil to see if the Coticule can retain the sharpness but tame the harshness.

If that doesn't work I will consign it to the too hard basket for now and move on.

Any thoughts?
 
I know nothing about honing etc (one day...) but an easy way to see whether the blade is "too sharp" is to just keep shaving with it and see what happens. It's quite possible that your technique has become accustomed to a lower level of sharpness / higher level of smoothness (or a particular "sweet spot") and you may need to re-calibrate pressure / angle etc for an ultra sharp blade.

For my Feather AC blades, smoothness increases linearly with a reduction in sharpness. They start off too sharp / harsh but then smooth out after 2-3 shaves until they start tugging ATG at around 15 shaves - but they only keep getting smoother and less likely to hurt me during that time. A pretty wide sweet spot between shave 3 and shave 14 usually has me thinking these blades aren't really that harsh and don't really cause damage - they are actually quite benign - until I reach for that new blade, which reminds me to focus again on the right technique!
 
@RazorPlay thanks for your insight but this actually felt very different. I have a couple of Russian and Japanese blades that are ultra sharp but this feels different. Surprisingly the edge of the edge is ultra smooth so theoretically it should be a great shave. I took the bade back to 6k for a few laps and then the Jnat and then the Coticule. Tonight may be a Schick shave if the blade is as bad as it was last night.
 
Interesting. Could be too sharp but that doesn't make sense in this context. That said it's the most likely explanation. I am assuming you've looked under a microscope?
 
bald as said:
Yes I looked at it with a scope. I do that with all blades, at all stages. :) It could be the poster child for the perfect edge. - If it wasn't :cry:
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Heheh the hords of scope hater are rejoicing and repeating their mantra "it makes no difference what it looks like under the microscope. All that matters is how it shaves".

I know you said you set the bevel, but have you done a "tap and wobble" test?
 
Balancing on one leg with my breath held and counting backwards from 1000. :)

Blade is perfect, even bevel - all those things.

A crappy looking edge may shave ok for someone who knows no better. I know no better so always use a scope :)
 
I'm not ani scope BTW. So if laid on a slate or something with just the edge and spine touching there is no wobble? That's the only thing I have experienced that can do what you have described...

Well let's bark up the "it's too sharp" tree, not because I think that's a thing but I have no better suggestion; Would a goodly number of laps on a course linen take the edge off it a little?
 
Yeah I don't use it either actually! JNat -> Roo -> Shave. That's it for me.
Thinking more about it last night, how wide is the bevel angle/width at the edge? Does it have much hone wear?

I have a Parker 567 that I just could not get to shave nice. Looked great, even the bevel width was good but had some spine wear and the typical Japanese toe wear. Added two layers of tape to steepen up the angle/reduce the bevel and it's been great since. Still not my best shaver but still a marked improvement.
 
Interesting thoughts on this. Strange why it would shave so poorly.

Devil's Advocate: Do you need to tweak your technique for this blade?

I know that for me, the Wester needs a much lighter approach than the Puma. The Wester will cut me in a heartbeat, but the Puma won't necessarily be as mean. The Bengall is somewhere in between, so I need to reset my technique for each blade.

With regard to edge setting, I had to go back twice with the Broken Hill Bengall. Each time the edge seemed good, but the shave was poor. This time around, I spent more time on the low stones, and the result is much different.

I have reset all of my edges away from the tape, to make the edges very feathery.
 
Arnold J Rimmer said:
Do you need to tweak your technique for this blade?
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:) No - my technique is fluid and basically like you adapts with each blade.

Arnold J Rimmer said:
I have reset all of my edges away from the tape
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I don't like tape either.

Sxot said:
how wide is the bevel angle/width at the edge? Does it have much hone wear?
Click to expand...

Hone wear is not an issue at all on a blade if the blade is "always" honed without tape. As the spine wears, the bevel wears to match. If the blade smith gave you a razor with the correct spine width to blade width the bevel angle will remain constant throughout the life of the blade no matter how worn the spine wears, they wear together. If you are honing an unknown blade ink the bevel and on the 8k take one light pass and examine the bevel. If you can see texta on the apex it was probably honed with tape add a layer of tape and repeat. Keep adding layers of tape in most cases will indicate how many layers of tape are needed to approximate the original honing - or - do it properly and set the bevel without tape - unless it is someone's precious piece of man jewelry :)

I have a small spreadsheet that you can enter spine width and blade width and it will give you bevel angle. This blade is happily in the 16 - 20 degree accepted range. 17.5 degrees.

I have spent longer at the 6k mark today and finished on my Cnat with 12k slurry so we will see tonight.
 
No blood but the shave is still less than nice. I will take it back to the 1 k and really kill the edge incase there is some dodgy steel at the edge of the edge. If that fails it will go into the "hone it when you know better" basket. :)
 
It is a weird thing, but I think it happens to most of us at some stage. You do what you think is a great hone, but the blade edge is just meh.

I found that killing the edge is the best way to go. I freely admit to stealing.. err.. adopting this technique from @Mark, in a post from a year or 2 ago.

Dulling it, so that you know when it is sharp, it is newly sharp and not just a push on from before.

I don't recall going wrong by doing this.

bald as said:
If that fails it will go into the "hone it when you know better" basket. :)
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<thought> You could always do a pass around to another stoner. Maybe different stones would yield different results.. </thought>
 
bald as said:
Hone wear is not an issue at all on a blade if the blade is "always" honed without tape. As the spine wears, the bevel wears to match. If the blade smith gave you a razor with the correct spine width to blade width the bevel angle will remain constant throughout the life of the blade no matter how worn the spine wears, they wear together. If you are honing an unknown blade ink the bevel and on the 8k take one light pass and examine the bevel. If you can see texta on the apex it was probably honed with tape add a layer of tape and repeat. Keep adding layers of tape in most cases will indicate how many layers of tape are needed to approximate the original honing - or - do it properly and set the bevel without tape - unless it is someone's precious piece of man jewelry :)

I have a small spreadsheet that you can enter spine width and blade width and it will give you bevel angle. This blade is happily in the 16 - 20 degree accepted range. 17.5 degrees.

I have spent longer at the 6k mark today and finished on my Cnat with 12k slurry so we will see tonight.
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I agree, on paper. Experience tells me otherwise. If a previous owner was honing with a heavy hand on the heel, it will wear faster and decrease the angle. This is evident by the width of the bevel at the edge. A wide bevel at the edge, IME is an indicator of this and results in a harsh shave. The Japanese, at least, had/have some funky honing ideas that result in bad wear.
 
Using tape won't correct that - unless - you add extra tape in those mangled areas. Or spend an afternoon with calipers and hone the spine to the correct uniform profile width so if you need tape it is only complete pieces.

I spent this morning killing and resetting the bevel on my problematic blade 3 times and now it is ready for a face test tonight. I cannot see a reason why but I did all the finishing with oil on my Coticule in case there was an issue with this particular blade and a Jnat. I don't think so but who knows.
 
Glad this turned out well. I didn't want to comment as my honing skills are pretty raw, but I do have a Gotta and the edge is exceptional.
 
I "think" it may have been bad steel from poor storage. The Coticule with oil has proved exceptional.
 
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