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Difference between feedback and a dull blade?

raven_squire

raven_squire

Member
Hello,

I just had my first shave with a straight razor the other day (I normally use a shavette) and I am trying to figure out what to make of the experience. I didn't prepare for the shave as well as I normally would. I used a gold dollar straight that had been sharpened on Jnats by someone, who's abilities I have faith in. I was quite surprised about how the shave felt. While I was shaving I could hear sandpaper (for lack of a better description) and also feel it through the tang. The razor just plowed through the hair and didn't require any pressure. That was with the exception of the stubble in the mustache area that did tug and I had to be careful. Interestingly it was great to be able to shave all the way into the lower nostril area. I am used to my shavettes where there is no "sandpaper" unless the blade is dull in which case it also requires more pressure and tugs the hairs.

Can anyone clarify what feedback is?
 
Sounds perfectly normal to me, and your first shave was a success! A hollow blade will give you that verbal feedback a shavette cannot. I personally LOVE that sound. The less hollow a blade, the less singing. A wedge feels strange after a hollow as it gives almost no verbal feedback and sort of feels dull. That's not to say it's a bad experience. Just different.
 
The sound is created by the blade "popping" hairs. Hair as layers like a sheoak tree needle. The blade slides along the hair until it hits the join between the two layers and grabs, cutting (or popping) the hair as it's forced against the edge.

The tugging on the lip is due to poor skin stretching. The skin there is quite soft so the hair is bent and pulled if the folicale is not held firm (don't over do it though).

Remember too a straight is not as sharp as a shavette but the edge is more comfortable as it can be customised by the choice of hone and strop.
 
raven_squire said:
Thanks Sxot! The straight was a lot more forgiving than a shavette :) Thank you for your feed back, when you have no experience it is hard to know what is going on.
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Absolutely more forgiving. There are times when I'm astounded I have not cut myself when I catch my lip or skin under my nose! A shavette would have cut for sure. Don't give it any less respect though.
 
I know what you mean. On about three occasions I reacted because I thought I was going to get a nic from the corner of the shavette blade and nothing. There was no corner the blade was longer and the corner was safely out of the way. One thing I have noticed with a shavette is that without noticing it will remove anything on you face pimples, scabs from old nics ETC Gone.
 
Great question from @raven_squire and great response from @Sxot - you learn new stuff here every day!
 
raven_squire said:
Hello,

I just had my first shave with a straight razor the other day (I normally use a shavette) and I am trying to figure out what to make of the experience. I didn't prepare for the shave as well as I normally would. I used a gold dollar straight that had been sharpened on Jnats by someone, who's abilities I have faith in. I was quite surprised about how the shave felt. While I was shaving I could hear sandpaper (for lack of a better description) and also feel it through the tang. The razor just plowed through the hair and didn't require any pressure. That was with the exception of the stubble in the mustache area that did tug and I had to be careful. Interestingly it was great to be able to shave all the way into the lower nostril area. I am used to my shavettes where there is no "sandpaper" unless the blade is dull in which case it also requires more pressure and tugs the hairs.

Can anyone clarify what feedback is?
Click to expand...
I have also tried a few straight shaves and had a similar sort of experience to yours @raven_squire - I wasn't sure how sharp the blades were (even though they were supposed to be shave readyby reputable sellers) . I gave up and switched to Feather AC shavettes because at least I knew these blades were 100% sharp and ready to go.
Ive tried to contact @Mark to hone the straights but he must be away as havent had a response as yet.
 
I am also having trouble contacting Mark. I believe that he has not logged into this site for some time. He has not responded to Facebook messages either.

Only having a Gold Dollar and a Shave Factory shavette I will inevitably be upgrading some time in the future. I started wondering today, if I am already comfortable using shavettes would something like the Feather AC be easier and more economical in the long term when compared to maintaining a straight razor? I know the corners of a shavette that uses a DE razor are unforgiving but I assume a Feather AC does not have that issue. @Snooze how long are the AC blades compared to your straight? I think I will get proficient with the straight before I decide what way I would like to go. I love the idea of just throwing in a new blade in when the old one is dull.
 
Yea, I also had trouble contacting @Mark hope things are ok
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Things are okay with Mark. Just busy.
You could try @Substance or for a hone, or even I would be happy to oblige if you are keen on a Jnat. @stillshunter would help you out with a coti edge if you prefer to go that way.

Once you have the hang of stropping, there really is nothing in regards to straight maintenance. Certainly no burden as you will go several months before requiring a hone once you get the stropping technique right.
 
Hey guys, late to the party again. It's been a busy month for me. I've replied to all of your messages just then so we'll carry on.

In regards to the main post of the thread, The feedback you get from a straight razor occurs for a couple of reasons, one is that a hollow ground straight razor which is more often than not good quality steel that has been ground on both sides on a series of wheels to make it very thin also flexible, only razors that have been heat treated are able to perform with a very thin cutting edge leaving it flexible yet strong, in other words capable of having good edge retention meaning that the blade can flex when it needs to without causing any damage to the blades edge, this provides audible feedback which is a similar effect to a guitar string.

Even heavier grinds, kamisoris and framebacks (thicker blades) will also flex but to a smaller degree but still provide you some audio feedback and offer more 'give' than a shavette which is pretty much a razor blade being held in a cheap tool.
 
I have and use regularly (for 3 or 4 months at least) a non folding Feather Artist Club DX but have not tried a proper straight due to the usual concerns over honing etc, which appears to be a real rabbit warren with JNats, coticules, arkansas, films, balsa, compounds, strops, synthetics etc etc etc - the list goes on! Going by my soap collection these days the last thing I need is another razor genre...

I agree the Feather AC system is unforgiving but I've not had a problem with the corners, which are a lot more rounded than a DE blade. The main issue for me is the blade exposure and the angles you can achieve. If I use Pro Super blades (the ones with the biggest exposure) in my DX (which doesn't have the bump of the SS range) I can get really low angles and I believe a small part of the blade flex that a straight enjoys (although nothing like a full hollow of course). More exposure provides more torque for the blade to slide over skin imperfections, rather than through them!

The result is very close shaves with a lot less damage than the normal Pro blades for me. The guarded blades are also very good (indeed better probably) for avoiding damage IME and shave remarkably close. Of all of them I prefer the Pro Supers. The biggest issue is the extreme sharpness of the blades (scalpels really...), sharper than anything that can be honed by hand by all accounts. After a few shaves it is fine (I get 15 good shaves in total per blade) but for the first few you really need to be especially careful. That's when you learn the true meaning of "no pressure"! Some people cork their blades out of the box to get past that stage but I'm too tight for that!
 
RazorPlay said:
I have and use regularly (for 3 or 4 months at least) a non folding Feather Artist Club DX but have not tried a proper straight due to the usual concerns over honing etc, which appears to be a real rabbit warren with JNats, coticules, arkansas, films, balsa, compounds, strops, synthetics etc etc etc - the list goes on! Going by my soap collection these days the last thing I need is another razor genre...

I agree the Feather AC system is unforgiving but I've not had a problem with the corners, which are a lot more rounded than a DE blade. The main issue for me is the blade exposure and the angles you can achieve. If I use Pro Super blades (the ones with the biggest exposure) in my DX (which doesn't have the bump of the SS range) I can get really low angles and I believe a small part of the blade flex that a straight enjoys (although nothing like a full hollow of course). More exposure provides more torque for the blade to slide over skin imperfections, rather than through them!

The result is very close shaves with a lot less damage than the normal Pro blades for me. The guarded blades are also very good (indeed better probably) for avoiding damage IME and shave remarkably close. Of all of them I prefer the Pro Supers. The biggest issue is the extreme sharpness of the blades (scalpels really...), sharper than anything that can be honed by hand by all accounts. After a few shaves it is fine (I get 15 good shaves in total per blade) but for the first few you really need to be especially careful. That's when you learn the true meaning of "no pressure"! Some people cork their blades out of the box to get past that stage but I'm too tight for that!
Click to expand...

There are many ways to skin a cat, yes but it doesn't have to be complicated or expensive. I have one stone, one strop and that is all that I require to keep my razors sharp for a life time.
 
Great read lads, to add a bit extra if I might
Another difference I find with the shavettes over str8s is that most shavettes have a stiffness like a heavier half hollow or wedge blade but with no weight like a light full hollow str8
I admit I don't use (or like) shavettes much as I find the machine finished edges of DE blades ( about 10 different blades tried ) to be harsh compared to a smooth hand finished str8
But this is JMHO & YMMV
Look up the web for the fools pass for shaving the upper lip, tight lip a 2 handed shave
 
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