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How to flatten / condition new Adaee 12000 cnat?

sd_baker

sd_baker

Member
@rbscebu mentioned on bb that the fastest way to flatten (although still difficult due to intrinsic stone hardness), is SiC powder on wet and dry sandpaper.

1. What grit of wet and dry is best?
2. How long will the wet and dry last?
3. I have SiC 60-500 and AlOx up to 1200 in a rock tumbling kit. What finish should I go for?
 
From memory, I used about 80 or 100 grit W&D. The abrasive quality of the W&D didn't last very long but that didn't really matter as it was the SiC powder that did the work. I use 180 grit SiC powder to lap my Adaee #12000 but that is the only SiC powder that I have.
 
My rock is here.

1.179 kg 74.55 x 29.5 x 19.8 mm

I'm not sure what the specific gravity is, but I calculated 27.076. I must have made a mistake some where, here is what I used: 1.179 / (.07455*.0295*.0198)

Both surfaces are completely flat according to a metal rule. Each surface also feels smooth like glass.

I worked up a slurry with a 600 grit diamond plate and touched up and deburred a knife edge that I sharpened earlier on 1k diamond plate. Not sure what I expected, but the slurry turned gray quickly and I was happy with the sharpness of the knife.

Tomorrow I will lap on SiC on glass and see how it goes.



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Your Adahee has a relative density of 2.71. this is about the same as mine that from memory has a relative density of 2.76.

I use the pencil grid method to check my flatness. Once both sides are flat, I conditioned one side with a 600 grit diamond plate and the other side (the finishing side) with a 1500 grit diamond plate.

When honing on my Adahee, I prefer to use a mix of 6% soluble oil with water. Others prefer water only.

I hope you find your Adahee an interesting stone to hone with. I did with mine. For the price, it is an experience.
 
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sd_baker said:
My rock is here.

1.179 kg 74.55 x 29.5 x 19.8 mm

I'm not sure what the specific gravity is, but I calculated 27.076. I must have made a mistake some where, here is what I used: 1.179 / (.07455*.0295*.0198)

Both surfaces are completely flat according to a metal rule. Each surface also feels smooth like glass.

I worked up a slurry with a 600 grit diamond plate and touched up and deburred a knife edge that I sharpened earlier on 1k diamond plate. Not sure what I expected, but the slurry turned gray quickly and I was happy with the sharpness of the knife.

Tomorrow I will lap on SiC on glass and see how it goes.



image.png



image.png
Click to expand...
Your calculation correctly yields a specific gravity (ie density) of ~27,075.7 kg/m³ ie a relative density (to water) of ~2.7.
 
@rbscebu How do you use your cnat with slurry? JPO makes a good point (that I've heard from others) here that for hard stones, if the slurry doesn't break down, it will damage the apex. I'm thinking about buying a small jnat nagura to use with this.
 
@sd_baker, I do not use my Adaee #12k with a slurry. I use my Adaee as I use my hard black Arkansas, soluble oil mix only.

My Adaee is used as a finishing stone only. After my 10k Japanese synthetic (unknown brand), I move onto the 600 diamond plate conditioned Adaee side and finish on the 1.5k diamond plate conditioned side - all with sol-oil mix only. When I use to use only water with my Adaee, I noticed that there was just the slightest of self-slurry developing on the Adaee. I expect that that my still occur, but to a lesser extent, when using my sol-oil mixture.

Every natural whetstone is different. You need to find what works best for your Adaee and your honing technique.
 
What is your soluble oil? I have in the past used a mixture of water and light mineral oil with a bit of dish soap as an emulsifier. Is soluble oil the same idea?

I saw some of your experience reports with soluble oil on b&b and it was still a work in progress at that time.
 
rbscebu said:
After my 10k Japanese synthetic (unknown brand),
Click to expand...
Also curious why you chose to go with a stone over lapping film of 1 um? I'm considering this myself. I think my results are good with 1um film, but I just enjoy using stones a bit more. But high grit Japanese stones cost so much, like 10x the cost of lapping film easily.
 
sd_baker said:
Also curious why you chose to go with a stone over lapping film of 1 um? I'm considering this myself. I think my results are good with 1um film, but I just enjoy using stones a bit more. But high grit Japanese stones cost so much, like 10x the cost of lapping film easily.
Click to expand...
My 10k Japanese synthetic whetstone was given to me second-hand by my brother who lives in Japan. He found it in a second-hand store there. I have no idea if it is an expensive (good?) one but it does the job and works well for me.

After my 8k Synthetic, I could have progressed to some lapping films before the Adaee and indeed I did try that. I found no difference in the finished result.
 
Gargravarr said:
You are correct, and I am an idiot who failed to proofread before hitting the "post" button. :facepalm:
Click to expand...
I have solved the mystery: when I wrote down the measurements, I misplaced a decimal place. The stone length is not 19.8 mm, but 198 mm. So:

( 1.179 kg / (.07455*.0295*.198)m^3 ) / (1000 kg / m^3)

Evaluates to 2.71. Google is smart enough to understand the above units and all. Hooray!
 
sd_baker said:
I have solved the mystery: when I wrote down the measurements, I misplaced a decimal place. The stone length is not 19.8 mm, but 198 mm. So:

( 1.179 kg / (.07455*.0295*.198)m^3 ) / (1000 kg / m^3)

Evaluates to 2.71. Google is smart enough to understand the above units and all. Hooray!
Click to expand...
I admit to having had a mental headscratch moment, but I figured the numbers wouldn't lie. But sometimes they do... :D
 
rbscebu said:
My 10k Japanese synthetic whetstone was given to me second-hand by my brother who lives in Japan. He found it in a second-hand store there. I have no idea if it is an expensive (good?) one but it does the job and works well for me.
Click to expand...
I have a 12k Naniwa Gouken on the way now. Not sure if the step up from SP5k to this is okay, maybe I'll use 3um film in between.
 
I made some progress lapping my adaee 12k. Since it was so flat, I attempted to skip the SiC on glass, and managed to erase pencil grid in about 1 minute of flattening per side with 180 grit diamond plate.
 
sd_baker said:
I have a 12k Naniwa Gouken on the way now. Not sure if the step up from SP5k to this is okay, maybe I'll use 3um film in between.
Click to expand...
5k to 12k should be ok. That's a 2.4X step up. I happily do a 3k to 8k which is a 2.67X step up. If you are able to achieve a good shave-ready edge from your 12k, it should be right to finish on the Adaee.
 
For SR honing, grit steps of anywhere between 2X to 3X seem to be okay. Outside that range just only means more work for you.
 
sd_baker said:
What is your soluble oil? ....
Click to expand...
Soluble oil is manufactured by Penrite, Castrol, Philips, etc. You may know it as cutting fluid. It is used in machine shops as a coolant/lubricant when drilling, grinding and machining metals.

Soluble oil is not cheap per litre but it is mixed with water at about 5% oil to 95% water and you only use a few millilitres at a time when honing a SR.
 
I found a diamond plate of 400 got that adaee to slurry up very quickly. Odd, because my 320 silicone carbide stone did nothing but make scratches.

My pencil grid was removed, but I'm not sure if I have managed to flatten it. The surface lost it's shine though - it looks a bit "dull" now.

And I haven't really found it to work all that well for me.
Can't shave of the 12k adaee, took it to a 15k Proyan which seems sharp enough, maybe lacking some comfort? It's alright though.

@sd_baker I saw you mentioned that Proyan hone in another post, where you said something like bye bye superstone. I take it this means you prefer the Proyan over the Naniwa 12k?

Currently looking for stones to bridge my 1k to 6k King and something in between the 6k anf 15k.
Was thinking about some extra Proyans, but the 15k is very new to me and sceptisism about these hones seems high. I'm not sure if I should prefer them over Naniwa's. Whats your thought?

Thanks!
 
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