Knives & Knife sharpening

[Pjotr]

Very nice! Great you've got an Opinel too. Fantastic little pairing knives. Who cares that they're pocket knives. It's up there on the rack with all my other kitchen knives. Nice fat handle too.

 

[Mong.]

The terror has begun; I started getting to grips with the Bester 1200 last weekend and have been playing around with it as a stress-relief exercise after work this week. Big stack of knives, biiiiiig property deal at work, big stress. Is this how serial killers start?

I didn't do a whole lot to flatten to stone before use. I found a floor tile and taped some pretty low grit sandpaper to it, drew a grid on the stone, and lapped it until the grid was gone. Then I got on with it, because I think diamond plates are bullshit unless they have a secondary purpose. My first impressions are that it's an easy skill to acquire, but quite possibly a very difficult one to master. Most of my good knives are turning out okay, with at least a sharp and usable edge on them. My little carbon steel Tojiro petty is now freakishly sharp, and becoming a favourite in the kitchen. On the other hand, I can't get some of the shittier knives to really take an edge at all. I think they're so fucked that the bevel just needs to be reset with a low grit, and that's not going to happen anytime soon.

I've so far stayed away from knives over 20cm for fear of being unable to maintain a stable angle with the bigger blade. I'm feeling more confident now that I've worked up a 20cm Wusthof Trident boning knife, and did it well too. It's been my best effort so far, with a nice and consistent edge. Turns out that larger knives may actually be easier, because the bigger surface area of the blade provides a bit more meat to get my fingers around. So far, very happy I went the stone route and it should only get better with time.

 

[Pjotr]

..............I didn't do a whole lot to flatten to stone before use. I found a floor tile and taped some pretty low grit sandpaper to it, drew a grid on the stone, and lapped it until the grid was gone. Then I got on with it, because I think diamond plates are bullshit unless they have a secondary purpose.......

Have you tried wet sandpaper? Lasts for ages even with flattening a stone. A bit messy but you get a great result for bugger all outlay. You should have read the bile that was piled on when I once suggested this on a kitchen knife forum (read: "Exclusive Japanese Knife and Everybody Else Can Bugger Off" forum). I agree that diamond stones are an overkill unless you can find another use for them or you're doing this for a living.

...........So far, very happy I went the stone route and it should only get better with time.

Stones are great to use and surprisingly, very forgiving. Carbon steel is the way to go. Hold their edge as long if not lot longer than stainless and are a lot easier to sharpen. The downside is religiously having to dry them immediately after use. Not a problem if you're a knife nazi but if more people use them in the kitchen it can be an issue. I find the problem with sharpening knives is not so much the size but the amount of rocker they've got as that requires lots of adjustment.

 

[Ybbor]

While learning to hone straight razors i learnt a rolling x stroke. This works well on curved knives. I keep two stones, 400/1000 and a 1000/6000 near the kitchen sink and give any knives that need it a few laps. Really prefer a stone sharpened knife to other methods. And once sharp easy to maintain with stones handy.

 

[Mong.]

Have you tried wet sandpaper?

I just used it dry, but it was a very low grit and I want to use a slightly higher one in the future so that I'm taking a bit less material off the stone for regular flattening. Any advice on how often I should be going about doing that? Not sure my eyes are good enough to see if it starts to become uneven until it's excessively so.

Stones are great to use and surprisingly, very forgiving. Carbon steel is the way to go. Hold their edge as long if not lot longer than stainless and are a lot easier to sharpen. The downside is religiously having to dry them immediately after use. Not a problem if you're a knife nazi but if more people use them in the kitchen it can be an issue. I find the problem with sharpening knives is not so much the size but the amount of rocker they've got as that requires lots of adjustment.

Definitely more forgiving than I thought, but I did see how much metal the Bester is taking off while smoothing out a small chip in one of the knives. It's carbon steel and presumably on the softer side of that, but it did shave a decent few mm off the edge. Not sure why that surprises me, other than it happened in quite a short time. I did see that the Bester is pretty aggressive before I bought it though, I think it'll pay off in the long run when I've got better control.

While learning to hone straight razors i learnt a rolling x stroke. This works well on curved knives. I keep two stones, 400/1000 and a 1000/6000 near the kitchen sink and give any knives that need it a few laps. Really prefer a stone sharpened knife to other methods. And once sharp easy to maintain with stones handy.

The stone sharpen seems a bit rougher than the Edge Faux, which is all I really have to compare it too. That's not a criticism though; they actually have quite a good 'bite' and cut extremely easily and smoothly. My big 270mm Tojiro is naturally reasonably heavy, and it just falls through softer stuff without any effort. It's really justified this purchase in my mind, because now I can realise the full potential of even some of the lesser quality blades.

 

[Pjotr]

..........Any advice on how often I should be going about doing that?........

Every now and then. Just keep on top of it. As with anything you can get completely anal about it. I've read stories where people would flatten it before they turn the knife over to do the other side. Totally stupid if you ask me. You're always, no matter how good or experienced you are, going to have some rocker when you sharpen it's really no big deal if your stone has a bit too. In fact you could argue that a hollow stone will in fact counteract the rocking motion of your hands. Try bringing that to the attention of the knife nazis over at the kitchen knife forum.

.....The stone sharpen seems a bit rougher than the Edge Faux, which is all I really have to compare it too.....

Doesn't that depend on the final grit you use on the EF? Or are you comparing EF 1200 to Bester 1200. I find 1200(or thereabouts) is the perfect grit for both my carbon steel and SS kitchen knives. I sometimes use a higher grit just for the hell of it and because it makes such a lovely sound and leaves a nice black slurry mark as you draw the knife across it.

 

[Mark1966]

Just in case it is of any interest Everten is have a 10% off knives and accessories sale

See details here.

 

[Pjotr]

Thanks for the heads up. Would recommend the Dexter Russell green river range of knives if you want to try your hand at some great, cheap utility carbon steel knives. I've got a filleting knife that's at least 30yrs old which I found stuck in a beam at a disused abattoir. Always totally razor sharp with the occasional steel and very occasional run over a stone. Best small fish filleting knife I've ever used.

 

[gthomas04]

Best small fish filleting knife I've ever used.

Would that be a small knife for filleting fish or a filleting knife for small fish? Enquiring minds await your response.

 

[Pjotr]

Would that be a small knife for filleting fish or a filleting knife for small fish? Enquiring minds await your response.

That's interchangeable by virtue of the fact that filleting a small fish (herring, skippy, tailor etc) ideally requires the use of a small knife. If the inquiring minds need expanded explanation, the same goes for filleting medium sized fish (salmon for instance) which requires a medium sized knife and filleting a large fish (tuna) by extension requires a large filleting knife.

There are of course grey areas where using larger knives to fillet smaller fish or the reverse, filleting large fish with small knives, is possible. I will however contend that using large knives for small fish is wasteful whereas the reverse is less so. Health and safety wise-you can't discuss knife use without touching upon this subject-the use of a small knife to fillet a large fish is more dangerous as it requires more cutting and pushing a relatively flexible knife to it's maximum is simply wrought with danger.

Discuss!

 

[Mong.]

I have a shitty filleting knife in my tackle box, and it flexes a shitload even with small fish. It's a little scary when you're trying to cut something thick, I always worry that it'll snap.

I do want to get a medium sized boning or filleting knife, something with just a little bit of flex and a decent length. Sadly the Dexter Russell green in the size I'd like is out of stock. I've been keeping an eye on eBay for a suitable Old Hickory carbon steel one, Yanks seem to love them. I just want something that'll stay razor sharp for the occasional little speciality job, but seeing as use will only be occasional, price is my main issue.

I also wonder about whether or not it'll be a bit tricky to sharpen a thin filleting knife on the stone. The curvature of the blade and the thin blade just seem like a recipe for disaster for a rookie.

 

[Pjotr]

My little knife is a 15cm version of this one. If I wanted a bigger one for bigger fish I'd get this one. 20cm is a decent blade size IMO. It's also dead straight and a piece of piss to sharpen and keep sharp. $23 isn't going to bust the bank either

 

[Mong.]

That was the one I liked, it's out of stock though. I want the bigger blade or I'd buy the 15cm one, I need it to be able to do some Japanese-style thin slicing or I'd just get the shorter one.

Has yours stayed pretty stable with just the two rivets?

 

[Pjotr]

When I found it (as I said stuck in the beam of a disbanded abattoir and, to further accentuate this somewhat gruesome picture, beneath it was a pallet of pigs ears) it had obviously been treated badly. The handle was and still is badly cracked but to answer your question it hasn't moved and has remained stable. Provided you don't treat it as some knuckle scraping, pig killing slaughterhouse monkey would, it'll last several lifetimes of non-professional use. I'd love to have an excuse to buy another one. I've also heard good reports about Old Hickory but what comes out of the mouths of US knife enthusiasts should be in the first instance regarded as complete toss.

 

[glenos]

Any recommendations for an EF seller on ebay?

 

[glenos]

Any recommendations for an EF seller on ebay?

Or a decent whet stone?

 

[Mong.]

I just used the first seller with good feedback for the EF, there are loads of people shipping from China. For the whetstone, I used a seller from Japan called "metalmasterjp". I had no problems with them, and although they have a few instances of bad feedback, I wouldn't be too concerned. My stone was dispatched after a couple of days and took about a week to get here. It arrived safe and sound with decent packaging. You could also try "bluewayjapan", which several of us have used for knife purchases. They have some good entry-level King and Naniwa stones, including some combinations.

 

[Monsta_AU]

Speaking of the EF, I need to order a new high-grit stone. Tried to repair the one I broke and it pretty much is for the bin.

 

[Pjotr]

Or a decent whet stone?

Now you're talking. If you prefer and have gone through the sometimes painful process of teaching yourself to use and more importantly appreciate traditional shaving gear over cartridges and canned foam why use an EF over a whetstone? Any decent large sized 1200-1500 grit whetstone will work just fine. It's a very similar learning process with angles, pressure, tight spots etc. With shaving your own face is the guinea pig but you can grab any old kitchen knife and practice to your hearts content with out causing any damage. It's actually pretty hard to do much damage to a knife.

 

[Mong.]

PJ is correct, it's pretty hard to catastrophically fuck anything up. The worst you can do is lose focus and take the edge off something you've spent 20 minutes carefully crafting (I've done this twice, and now I've learned my lesson about angle).

The King 1k stones are well regarded and a good price. With hindsight, I'd probably start there, but my Bester 1200 is quick and efficient and I don't regret going a little extra for that.