My Kamisori Experience

[Bladerunner7]

@Bladerunner7, there are two main types of grinds that a SR can have; an assymetrical grind (traditional Japanese kamisori style) or a symmetrical grind (typical western style). Kamisori SRs can also be obtained with a symmetrical grind.

Then you have edge length. Kamisori normally have an edge length of about 50mm while western style SRs have about 70mm. Western style SRs can also be obtained with a 50mm edge length (referred to as a shorty).

Finally there are the scales (handle). Western style SRs normally have folding scales while a kamisori generally has a fixed handle.

Addressing the two different types of grind, the assymetrical grind is traditionally meant to be used with only one side (Omote) against the skin, although many swap sides while shaving. If swapping sides, you need to be very careful with your shave angle as a different angle is required depending on the side you are using.

Shorter edge lengths can be more difficult to shave with as the blade's toe (and heel) will be closer to your skin when shaving. This could make it easier to cut yourself with the ends of the blade.

As for scales/handle type, that is a personal preference. When shaving, I prefer the fixed handle on a short blade razor like the traditional kamisori. This seems to give me better control but you loose out on safety when storing.

Now to address your question about a kamisori or western style for a beginner. As a teacher of SR shaving, I would recommend a symmetrically ground western style full length SR with folding scales. It is the easiest and most forgiving to shave with. The only time that I would recommend that a beginner start with an assymetrically ground kamisori style SR with fixed handle is if the student intended to shave exclusively with such into their future.

@Gargravarr has made an interesting comment above. I believe that his "kamisori" razor was symmetrically ground, full-length edge with a fixed handle. You would probably have to get one of those custom made.

Thanks so much for sharing that mate. Grateful for the knowledge on this.

 

[Bladerunner7]

 

[Bladerunner7]

I don't know for sure where that razor is (dark suspicions regarding a certain removals company ) but IIRC the blade length would have been closer to 60mm. You're right about the rest, it was never meant to be the real (authentic Japanese) deal, it was made to do a job, which it did.

I think that's very cool though, a home made tool that served its purpose.

 

[rbscebu]

My first shave with the Yamamasa kamisori. This will my razor for the week using Rozorock green label soap.

​

This razor appears to have had a bit of a hard life over the years but still enjoys effortlessly slicing through my silken whiskers at skin level.

Before the first shave, I put this kamisori through a full diamond pasted balsa strop progression. This was to ensure that the e3dge was up to my standard.edge did not disappoint me. Having a more acute bevel than the Tosuka, this Yamamasa was noticeably smoother on the fool's pass (not to be tried by a beginner). Other than that, it shaved about as equally as well as the Tosuka did.

One thing that I really notice in the handling of the Yamamasa was the lack of any covering on the razor's handle. The handle's steel is just a tad over 2mm thick while the width is between 5mm to 7mm (near the shoulder). This made it difficult to flip while stropping and presented some difficulty in holding while shaving. If it were my razor, I would at least wrap some rattan cane around the steel handle.

 

[Bladerunner7]

It must have been a challenge using the handle like that, wow. Why don't you wrap some Rattan cane around the steel handle?

 

[rbscebu]

It must have been a challenge using the handle like that, wow. Why don't you wrap some Rattan cane around the steel handle?

Because the kamisori are not mine. They have been lent to me by @LesC.

 

[rbscebu]

I was just chatting with my little brother who lives in a small village up in the mountains outside of Kyoto, Japan. He tells me that the Japanese name for the handle of a kamisori is 柄 pronounced gara.

 

[Gargravarr]

I was just chatting with my little brother who lives in a small village up in the mountains outside of Kyoto, Japan. He tells me that the Japanese name for the handle of a kamisori is 柄 pronounced gara.

Good, that's something I didn't know. Incidentally, a good way to practice rattan or leather wrapping is to use chopsticks as a substrate, preferably the kind with a square cross-section. They can be doubled up as required to vary the size.

 

[rbscebu]

Many decades ago my little brother obtained his undergraduate degree in architecture at Sydney University. He then went to Japan to study for his masters degree at Kyoto University.

Prior to his Kyoto University enrolment being accepted, he had to pass a Japanese language exam. Evidently even most native Japanese could not pass the exam. He spent 3 years full-time just studying the Japanese language in Kyoto before he could pass that exam.

 

[Ebonysw45]

Because the kamisori are not mine. They have been lent to me by @LesC.

These are pretty good, you have one on the first kamisori. I have one on a henkotsu and they can be purchased on their own. For a quick wrap you can use paracord or a tsuka wrap. Pretty much any thick cord/leather and it can then be removed.

 

[Bladerunner7]

Because the kamisori are not mine. They have been lent to me by @LesC.

Aah. That makes sense. Your younger sibling is a rock star. I love Kyoto big time but have never ventured out on the outskirts. Worked alongside the Japs for 14 years and made a lot of trips back and forth mainly to Tokyo and Osaka. I can converse a bit but written stuff, no way, ha ha ha ha. Love Japan for the food, the people, the grand Seikos, the gaming, the electronics, Asics, the musical instruments and just the culture, so cool.

 

[rbscebu]

@LesC has graciously offered to give me his much loved Yamamasa kamisori. I have refused to accept it as a gift but rather as a permanent loan so that he can request its return at any time.

I will now treat this Yamamasa as my own. First I will apply some wrapping to the kamisori's gara. Then I will try and make a protective timber case for it. All this only after I have spent at least a week of daily shaving to get use to the blade.

 

[rbscebu]

I have now had five shaves with each of the two kamisori supplied to me by @LesC. I must say that it has been an experience that has greatly benefited my shaving skills. Although initially it was difficult for me to control a kamisori just shaving only with the Omote side against my skin, I am slowly developing a technique that works for me.

The most difficult part of kamisori shaving for me was trying to shave N-S (XTG for me) on the left side of my neck. I gave up and just shave S-N. Another difficulty for me was shaving chin to ear (ATG for me) on my right jawline. It took some time to develop a way to do this successfully, but it can be done.

This morning I will again shave with the Tosuke, just to refresh my memory of how it shaves, and tomorrow's shave will be with my Titan ACRM-2 T.H.60 shorty. Then I will report back here with my conclusions about kamisori shaving the "traditional" way.

 

[rbscebu]

I have now concluded my kamisori experience. This could not have been done without the help of @LesC and for that I will be eternally grateful.

I forced myself to kamisori shave in the traditional way with the Omote (the "flat") side against my skin. What I have learnt about kamisori shave for me:

• Learning to shave and developing a working technique is the most difficult shaving experience that I have undertaken. I would not recommend it for a beginner to SR shaving.
• You will need to learn a totally new way to shave. Previous skills help but you need to be able to often forget what you have learnt and start with an open mind .
• Like all SRs, the edge needs to be extremely keen.
• Beware of the kamisori edge. It offers no protection when the razor is being handled and it is very easy to cut yourself. My thumb is still healing from two weeks ago.
• Stropping can initially be more difficult with a kamisori. I put this down to the shape of the razor's gara (handle). This does become easier with experience but still requires concentration.
• Forget about doing your normal three passes N-S, horizontal and S-N. There will be some of your normal shaving strokes that you will find impossible to do. You just need to learn another way.
• Shave angle is most important. The blade really needs to be almost flat against the skin to get a close comfortable shave.
• The toe of the blade needs to be muted as you start your journey. Although I normally shave with my SRs having sharp pointy toes, the kamisori that @LesC lent me both had their toes slightly muted. that helped me a lot. As my technique develops, I will probably move to sharp pointy toed kamisori.
• Even for an experienced SR shaver, expect some red in your lather as you start your journey. (this could be a good case for using red coloured lather .)
• As your kamisori technique improves, you will start to get closer and more comfortable shaves than you got with western styled SRs. I put this down to the extreme concentration you need when kamisori shaving.
• You need to persist with your kamisori learning and not give up. With my almost 5 years of daily SR shaving, I started to become a little comfortable with this after 2 weeks of daily kamisori shaving and I still have a lot more development to go through. Those who shave less often will take much longer.

Overall I am very glad that I took up kamisori shaving. It was quite a challenge, that I enjoy, and very relaxing due to the concentration required. If you are experienced in western style SR shaving, you may wish to move up to a level higher. Get yourself an asymmetrically ground Japanese kamisori and give it a good go.

 

[sd_baker]

Are you stropping the same number of passes on each side?

 

[rbscebu]

Are you stropping the same number of passes on each side?

After each shave, the kamisori gets 2 x 5/1 passes on a kid leather strop. Before each shave about 30 to 50 equal passes in a calf leather strop. The kid leather is used to clean the bevel and realign the edge. The calf leather is for removing oxidation on the bevel. Stropping does not remove any steel.

 

[sd_baker]

After each shave, the kamisori gets 2 x 5/1 passes on a kid leather strop. Before each shave about 30 to 50 equal passes in a calf leather strop. The kid leather is used to clean the bevel and realign the edge. The calf leather is for removing oxidation on the bevel. Stropping does not remove any steel.

Oh so you're not using 0.1 diamond after every shave?

 

[rbscebu]

Oh so you're not using 0.1 diamond after every shave?

Yes I am. After the kid leather stropping I then go to the 0.1μm diamond pasted balsa (hanging) after every shave. With the pasted balsa, laps are again about 5/1 with kamisori.

The only razors that gets the diamond pasted balsa after every shave are those that are finished and maintained on my natural whetstones (hard black Arkansas, coticule and Adahee #12000).

 

[rbscebu]

Oh so you're not using 0.1 diamond after every shave?

Correction

Yes I am. After the kid leather stropping I then go to the 0.1μm diamond pasted balsa (hanging) after every shave. With the pasted balsa, laps are again about 5/1 with kamisori.

The only razors that do not get the diamond pasted balsa after every shave are those that are finished and maintained on my natural whetstones (hard black Arkansas, coticule and Adahee #12000).

 

[Bladerunner7]

@rbscebu , had a question that isn't Kamisori related directly but more like a step brother of it. I saw a Feather Artist Club SS Fixed Straight Razor Shavette in a shop that is close to my home. Was very intrigued with the design and the way it felt in the hand. What's your view on this Razor Richard?