Review Redgum Soaps

[alfredus]

I will try to collect all the experience with the Redgum soaps from @roger in one thread - so it can be easily followed. I hope it is OK to quote the experiences mainly from @khun_diddy in the SOTD section and I would invite all the members who got the super generous test kit from @roger to share their experience - and of course I hope @roger will chime in as well.

Just as a recap - as far as I understand Redgum is a soap making venture that makes natural Olive Oil Castile Type soaps and wants to create a shaving soap of this kind. Please notice, that I don't use the term Chemical free (as a Chemist) - let's stick maybe to the term natural ingredients for now?

Here a picture of what @roger send out to me:

And he was very adamant, that he wants all reviews to be made in public - which I find very honourable and I think it will serve him great in the long run.

First here are the first experiences - mainly from @khun_diddy

Soap: Redgum Lemon Scented Myrtle Castile Shaving Soap

Consistency: The soap is hard. It makes MWF feel like play dough in comparison. It is diamond-level hard. I suspect the puck will still be kicking on as the heat death of the universe kicks in.

Lather: It doesn't lather. My Omega synth can lather vodka but it couldn't lather this soap. It could create foamy suds but their lifespan was extremely short. Honestly, Williams look like a lather monster next to this. I believe you should make this very clear on your website or else shavers will be upset.

Cushion: Non-existent.

Glide: Not too bad actually given the appearance on the skin.

Scent: Extraordinary. I love the lemon scented myrtle. Really really nice. Definitely one of the best shaving scents I've come across.

Scent Strength: Very low. This doesn't bother me but it will bother a lot of shavers. If it was increased a smidgeon it'd be perfect.

Post-shave: Your soap destroys any other soap/cream I have used. Olive oil soap is a whole new paradigm as far as post-shave is concerned. I didn't want to apply aftershave which is unheard of for me. The post-shave is so good that I can overlook the lack of lather.

I finished up with your 'aftershave' which is simply macadamia oil and lemon scented myrtle. Here the scent strength is much stronger and oh so delicious. I've never used oils after shaving but I'm enjoying the sensation.

This is a controversial product Roger but I'm sure I'll use it quite a bit.

I just revisited the Redgum Lemon Scented Myrtle Castile Shaving Soap by doing a test palm lather. This time I removed it from the tin (no mean feat!) and soaked the puck in very hot water for a good five minutes. Once that was done, I loaded the Omega S-Brush for way longer than I normally would and built a lather in my palm.

The result was better than last night but the lather dissipated rapidly as before. Now I wonder if something like a 65/35 olive oil/stearic acid mix would give a longer lasting lather without diminishing the wonderful skin conditioning that the olive oil provides?

Anyway, I'm going to keep experimenting with this stuff as I love the post-shave.

BTW, @roger - I used your 'just soap' to wash my face in the shower this morning. I never wash my face with soap as I don't want to remove natural oils but I had no qualms using this stuff and it's left my face feeling wonderful. In fact, I'm going to use it for a slick second pass one day to see how it performs.

@khun_diddy
I get best results by loading the brush from the soap then transfering the lather to a warmed lather bowl. Then I let it rest for a fe minutes to allow the glycerin to fully hydrate. Reworking the later after the wait should give a creamy lather that dosen't dissapear.

Soap: Redgum Lemon Scented Myrtle Castile Shaving Soap

I followed @roger's suggestion and used a bowl to lather tonight. It did create a better lather but it's still the least inspiring lather I've experienced in a shaving soap. Foamy and quick to dissipate. Having said that, I had a lovely shave that I enjoyed immensely. The conditioned skin on the second pass was seriously slick. The post-shave, as with last night, was sen-frigging-sational!

I went the balm instead of the aftershave. It's actually more like a wax. I'm not a balm guy. I won't use this stuff regularly but damn if my skin doesn't feel a million dollars. Lemon scented myrtle in ethanol simply has to become a reality.

After the shave I washed my hair with the 'just soap'. Brilliant stuff. I'm pretty sure I'm going to give up with shampoos and use a Castile bar like this instead.

Thinking out loud: how would a formulation of olive oil 50%, stearic 30%, castor oil 20% work? A bit more staying power but still all the olive oil goodness?

@roger
Would you suggest the 100% KOH gel type as more a small amount added directly to the knot of the brush and used as a face lather or also use it as a bowl preparation?

@bald as
I have been trying the K soaps with some success, there seem to be a few variables such as how dry the soap is from the last time you used it, brush type, and temperature and especially wait time.

All of these things might seem like a nuisance but we are committed to making soaps with as few additives as possible.

My research over the years suggests that Castile soaps were once favoured for shaving however this seemed to have changed when the marketing of "New and Improved" became more important than quality.

I am looking forward to your updates.

 

[alfredus]

Going from these experiences - I started with the Lemon Myrtle soap:

I bloomed the soap with hot water for a couple of minutes:

Then I loaded my Paladin 2-band badger brush with it - although the soap is hard, no problems here and not a longer than usual loading time - but I always (over)load long:

Now the lathering took some time - I had to work very hard (3-5 min) to get to this stage:

As you can see the lather looks OK - lots of bubbles and not so creamy. So I let it sit in the bowl (room temperature) for ~5 min.

As you can see, the lather has collapsed - large bubbles have formed and so I re-lather as per @roger instructions:

I personally find the first lather a bit better - but not by much. Next I put some on my hand and rub around a little bit:

Unfortunately the lather collapses pretty much straight away - but it has a nice glide to it and my hand definitely feels hydrated afterwards.

Just to make sure - I repeated the same experiment with my Whipped Dog Synthetic and my
Semogue 610 boar brush - the stages are similar: load, lather, wait in bowl for ~5 min, re-lather, put on hand, rub

As you can see - the results are pretty much similar. I personally found the first lather (without the extra wait) with the Paladin to be the best of all - and was very hopeful when I saw and felt that result. Unfortunately it didn't hold its body very long. The way I face lather (lather just once at the beginning of the shave and have enough lather for all passes in the brush) is definitely not possible with this soap - but I will still try to shave with it tomorrow anyway.

 

[alfredus]

I also did a quick lather with the 100 Potassium soap and my synthetic brush - again going through all the stages: put some on brush, lather, wait ~5 min, lather again, put on hand, rub:

As you can see from the pictures - in this case unfortunately the lather totally collapses in the bowl and can't be really brought back...

 

[filobiblic]

Nice documentation of what the lather looks like @alfredus . (And thanks for a separate thread!). It certainly proves the point about olive oil and shaving soaps don't mix.

I'm sure the Olive oil provides splendid post-shave feel and hydration to the face. But it is going to kill the lather. I'm sure you can still shave with it (based on the glide and lubrication) but I'm not sure how much protection it will provide.

Keep those reviews coming!

I'd also like to hear about the shampoo soap, aftershave balm, etc. They are more likely to be wonderful additions to the shaving toolkit.

 

[bald as]

@alfredus superb review. Your results are very much the same as mine, however the actual feel hints at the possibility this may be potentially a a really good shaving soap but very different to every other soap we have tried. I agree @roger has been very generous in sending out his samples. I particularly like the after shave oil. The balance of the Lemon Murtle is really appealing.

Steve

 

[filobiblic]

...however the actual feel hints at the possibility this may be potentially a a really good shaving soap but very different to every other soap we have tried.

Care to elaborate? What do you mean...?
(There's a few soaps that fit the "unique" category including Otoko Organics - 100% synthetic - and possibly the Jabonman Lima-Intenso which is more gel-like texture.)

 

[bald as]

By different I just mean very low lather. To me lather - the thick creamy style "may" provide cushion but it is often just - and I may be wrong - the bulk caused by the high stearic acid content of most shaving soaps, It "may" more perception than reality as I have shaved with a well prepared face and only Olive oil and got an excellent shave. As a younger shaver I really didn't understand the nuances of lather and often mine was thin. My solution was to brush the soap and touch up the face if needed. I make my own shaving soap that is reasonable in the lather etc department but maybe the creamy lather doesn't necessarily provide much more than a visual thing. I don't actually believe that, just thinking aloud.

 

[borked]

The balms sound like something I would be interested in trying
A pity about the protection offered by the soaps, as the scent, slickness and post shave results sound promising.

 

[khun_diddy]

Great reviews @alfredus and thanks for creating this thread. Your results are exactly the same as what I have seen thus far.

However, I, like @bald as am convinced that olive oil in shaving soaps should not be written off just yet. Right now this soap is 80/20 olive oil/castor oil. We need to see what 65/35 is like. We need to see what 50/30/20 olive oil/stearic/castor oil is like. Maybe even 50/25/20/5 olive oil/stearic/castor oil/coconut oil is the answer.

I don't demand 'lather porn' but I do need stable lather. If it's possible to get a stable lather with that incredible post-shave I would be so sold on 'Castile' style shaving soaps.

And even with it's current deficiencies, I'm definitely going to be putting in a lot of shaves with this stuff.

 

[Nick the Knife]

@bald as makes a good point in that lather is often overrated on it's volume etc but to be fair I do think thats a bit of a novice mistake that very few savvy travellers in here would make. I've 100% confidence that the average P&Cer knows the difference between 'lather porn' where this big mass of lather is generated vs a super slick, dense lather that is very hard to spot bubbles in and works like a dream.

The latter being the hallmark of great shaving soaps (IMHO) - but @khun_diddy is right that it needs to be stable. And I have to say that was an amazingly thorough review & pix from @alfredus but every picture struck me as lather from a regular soap (shitloads of bubbles, very thin body) rather than a specialist shaving soap. As for the lathering and then allowing it to rest for 5mins etc - thats a LOT of dicking around when you can get an amazing lather from the vast majority of shaving soaps in under a minute - so a lot of people would never do this AND I could only imagine folks doing so IF the resulting lather was absolute top shelf - which currently appears a long ways off. But anyway it'll be interesting to see how you get on.

Whilst the post-shave is great I do wonder if it'd differ that much to shaving with just straight OO (as I think some people do) or using it as your postshave finisher. After reading Alf's & KD's great reviews I'm reminded of what my initial thoughts were when I heard about this in Roger's intro thread - that I'm sure you could shave with an OO soap but the fact essentially no other shaving soap maker uses OO as the basis of their soaps (and almost not at all) does send a pretty strong message.

Again great reviews by Alf & KD - and full credit to Roger for putting his products out to be reviewed (haha though in your intro you did offer to me very first of all to send a sample to review and I never heard back from you after saying I would but I'd have to be brutally honest - haha my bark is worse than my bite! ;-) Anyway look forward to hearing how the reviews get on.

 

[khun_diddy]

Used the 'just soap' again for washing my hair. Love it. I keep my hair cropped to a #1 or #2 at all times so I'm not sure if it would work for people with longer hair but for me it's perfect.

 

[Dale.Whiley]

I've 100% confidence that the average P&Cer knows the difference between 'lather porn' where this big mass of lather is generated vs a super slick, dense lather that is very hard to spot bubbles in and works like a dream.

Same with the crema on espresso. Frothy and bubbly or quality.

 

[Monsta_AU]

Really proud to see you guys really getting into the nitty-gritty of this and giving a complete review rather than just giving up because the lather isn't really happening.

@roger it seems like there is some massive benefits to what you are producing, the slickness and post-feel seems to be phenomenal (I have NEVER heard the guys talk in the terms that they do with your soaps in these areas), and I feel like they are giving you some great feedback and suggestions in some things that you could try to make improvements. They have also tried using it as a shampoo bar and love it, so it looks like the underlying concept is good, we just need to make it lather and stay lathered.

 

[gthomas04]

I too put my hand up to test @roger soap (after all what is lower hanging than free). As others will have seen from the photos - this guy does not muck around when sending out samples.
Anyway down to the nitty gritty (without photos).

First one I used was the "men's soap", I have used it three times in the shower and once as a shampoo (herself is also using it in the shower). Her opinion is very favourable - finds it lathers well and does what a good soap is meant to do - gets her clean. I agree with her although I do find it gets very slippery when wet - not a normal bar of soap slippery but an oily type slippery which I guess is understandable.
I have also used this once to wash my hair - I have quite long (last haircut about 2004) slightly oily hair and found the bar could not produce anything in the way of a lather. I will say however that the hair was very easy to comb out afterwards. When dry my hair feels as if there is a slight residue on it.

Summary for the "Men's Soap", as a shower soap perfectly good. As a shampoo, I will reserve my judgement for a couple of more washes.

Next up - shaving soap. I started with the Castile 10%K soap and happily found it worked well. If you are looking for more lather than you can use in half a dozen shaves then this may not be for you.
As you will have seen, these soaps come in small round blocks and are quite hard. This being the case I decided to use it as I would a stick of soap. Got the face nice and wet then rubbed the soap firmly onto the face. Next set to with the brush and produced an acceptable, although not spectacular lather. However, the real test was whether it would soften a five day old beard and let a fifth shave blade do its thing. This test it passed with flying colours. No tug no pull just a nice pass of the Slim through the whiskers. I did note towards the end of the shave, the soap was beginning to thin out, but this did not affect the performance. I will have one more shave with the 10%K soap and then move onto the next.

The finish - used some of the macadamia oil scented with lemon myrtle. For reasons I cannot explain the scent reminded me of Juicy Fruit chewing gum.

To Be Continued:

 

[roger]

WOW Thanks guys
Great reviews, I have been out all day and just read all that you have said. Special thanks to @alfredus for detailed testing.

Firstly @alfredus the LSM Shaving soap is very hard, over 18 months old, it really needs to be broken in (ie the surface softened). Try another lather or two, and you might find that it performs differently.

Like you I didn't have much luck with lathering the 100% K soap, but when it was made it show such promise since it was a gel. I included it in the test package so we would all have a better idea of how various ingredients change the soap qualities. Maybe this mix could be improved by the addition of glycerin and or clay, that will be my next experiment.

Your results are very much the same as mine, however the actual feel hints at the possibility this may be potentially a a really good shaving soap but very different to every other soap we have tried.

This is my challenge - to make a Castile shaving soap that aficionados would recommend, and the "hints at the possibility" is what is driving me.

 

[khun_diddy]

I'm convinced it's possible. And I'm pretty excited about it.

 

[roger]

Used the 'just soap' again for washing my hair. Love it. I keep my hair cropped to a #1 or #2 at all times so I'm not sure if it would work for people with longer hair but for me it's perfect.

It does work for long hair, the trick is not to over rinse as this will get rid of all of the glycerin which acts as a conditioner.

I just want to thank everyone for all of their comments, your feed back is invaluable to me and hopefully it will result in improved products.

 

[alfredus]

OK, so I tried the Shaving soap today out for a shave

Pre-Shave: Occams pre-shave soap, cold water
Razor: Wolfman WR1-SB with WRH2
Blade: PolSilver SI (1)
Brush: Paladin 2015 TSN LE
Soap: Redgum Soaps Lemon Myrtle Scented Castile Shaving Soap
Post-shave: Alum, Stirling Vetiver alcohol free Witch Hazel

As already mentioned - the loading of the soap is definitely not an issue (not with the Paladins anyway) - bloom the soap for a couple of minutes and then it loads perfectly.

Actually the proto-lather looks very promising and at this point the soap looks like a top performer.

But unfortunately that's when it ends. I face lathered today at first and the lather really breaks down the moment the brush leaves that area. You actually feel the bursting bubbles - which is somehow fun.

Here my brush just after lathering:

And here after a (lightning fast) first pass:

It just collapses. I had a very hard time, building up lather for passes 2-4. I had to reload once and the whole experience was really hard work rather than pleasurable.

And I absolutely and totally disagree with @bald as and @khun_diddy in this point: the volume and body of a great lather is paramount for a great shave. I specifically choose the razor and blade combo to test this. Usually this combination gives a smooth and very close shave. Today I had nicks, some irritations and not such a close shave as expected.

I can think of only 2 reasons for this: first, my minimalist prep during which face lathering is the most important part. I assume, that a fully hydrated lather, also hydrates the whiskers - while in this case the lather just soapy/airy.

Also: perfect cushion is very important to protect the skin while still allowing for a close shave.

I also think that the good glide of the soap is diminished due to the bursting air bubbles. It felt like two forces were at play here: great glide from the Olive oil vs friction from the air bubbles.

Lastly I purposely did not use any Olive Oil or other oil to moisten after the shave to judge the post shave feel. The post-shave feel is good, but using Olive Oil at the end of the shave is superior IMO. For me it just cleanses the alum and witch hazel.

So all in all, I fear this product has still to go a long way

What would be of interest, is if the Olive Oil itself kills the lather or the products of the saponification do. This could be easily tested, by adding 1-2 drops of Olive Oil to a great lather and see, how it behaves. Then you should fully saponify pure olive oil and see how this behaves, when added to a good lather.

If the saponification product is not harmful: the soap could work - but only if you saponify 100% of the Olive oil first and then add other oils to the blend. I guess you would have to add excess base first, fully saponify and then add other oils/steric acid to kill excess base.

If on the other hand the resulting saponification product(s) of Olive Oil are the culprit, I fear you will have a hard time producing a good shaving soap.

I will go on and test lather all the other soaps and I am actually very much looking forward testing the post-shave products. But I am not going to shave with the soaps any more - unless of course my test lathers behave differently.

So if anybody else wants to have a go at these soaps - I would be more than happy to pass them on after the weekend. Alternatively I could add them to the travel box when it comes my way.

 

[roger]

Thank @alfredus, if the lather doesn't last it's not going to make a good shaving soap, however I do manage to get a good creamy lather from the LSM soap that sticks and lasts so there are variables not being accounted for.
However a good product should just work without a lot of specific instructions or conditions so it is back to the drawing board for this one I think.

 

[alfredus]

Do you maybe lather just on the puck and use that - what I would call proto-lather - straight away as is?

If you get a good result and I don't - clearly either I am doing something wrong - and I would hate that, because then I am not using the soap to it's full potential. I for one don't care, if I have to put in extra work for a superior product.

The other possibility is, we have a different understanding of a good result. My favourite soap needs also a lot of work - but for me the result is worth, It takes me ~5 min to get this:

But it will not change in the 30 min of my shave a bit.

Ingredients list (which is super clean IMO): Distilled water; saponified tallow (beef) and stearic acid; vegetable glycerin; saponified kokum butter, avocado oil, and shea butter; lanolin, fragrance and/or essential oil(s); saponified coconut oil; kaolin clay, vitamin E.