Virtual Shaving - your chance to practice your technique (and aviation related stuff)

[Monsta_AU]

There are two types - IATA and ICAO

Yeah sorry. I work in ICAO domestically, and IATA internationally. I have held a PPL previously so old habits die hard.

YSSY = Sydney
YPDN = Darwin

 

[Mark1966]

Yeah sorry. I work in ICAO domestically, and IATA internationally. I have held a PPL previously so old habits die hard.

YSSY = Sydney
YPDN = Darwin

Why ICAO domestically, and IATA internationally?

Just curious, part of the fascination as to why there are two sets anyway!

 

[filobiblic]

Why ICAO domestically, and IATA internationally?

Just curious, part of the fascination as to why there are two sets anyway!

Nah! No one goes off topic around here...

 

[stillshunter]

Nah! No one goes off topic around here...

I was thinking the exact same thing mate….and Mods, the lot of them!

 

[filobiblic]

I was thinking the exact same thing mate….and Mods, the lot of them!

Just think of what we would do of we ran this place?!

 

[stillshunter]

Just think of what we would do of we ran this place?!

Oh boy I'd shudder to think, though we'd not resort to gibberish about IATA, OATI, KAFC, etc.. Maybe we'd talk deeply about slapping dead animals and scraping metal against our faces….you know like normal people!

 

[Monsta_AU]

Why ICAO domestically, and IATA internationally?

Just curious, part of the fascination as to why there are two sets anyway!

All your local flightplans are filed against ICAO codes domestically, ie YSSY - YMML, so that is why I refer to each airfield domestically in ICAO codes.

Generally, it is too hard to remember them all internationally, but the IATA codes generally you can. I do learn some ICAO codes when keeping a track of my flights through flightdiary.net which saves everything in ICAO, but you can search in IATA.

I won't tell you that even locally, your flight can be YSSY - YMML but the waypoints are generally from the VOR of each airfield which can be 2-letter (if major terminal, so SY is Sydney, ML is Melbourne). Others VORs are usually 3-letter codes (IATA usually), and any GPS waypoints are usually 5-letter codes. So you can end up with waypoints like SY WOL RAZZI TANTA RUMIE NABBA BULLA TAREX LIZZI ML

 

[Mark1966]

All your local flightplans are filed against ICAO codes domestically, ie YSSY - YMML, so that is why I refer to each airfield domestically in ICAO codes.

Interesting because as a pax when booking flights the QF and VA websites respond to the IATA codes which is how I started to use them. I just tried the ICAO and they don't get reognised on the QF site.

I won't tell you that even locally, your flight can be YSSY - YMML but the waypoints are generally from the VOR of each airfield which can be 2-letter (if major terminal, so SY is Sydney, ML is Melbourne). Others VORs are usually 3-letter codes (IATA usually), and any GPS waypoints are usually 5-letter codes. So you can end up with waypoints like SY WOL RAZZI TANTA RUMIE NABBA BULLA TAREX LIZZI ML

It has been interesting living in CBR - there is obviously a waypoint for LOTS of flights just south west of us. Lots of vapour trails all emanating from around the same point.

 

[Monsta_AU]

Interesting because as a pax when booking flights the QF and VA websites respond to the IATA codes which is how I started to use them. I just tried the ICAO and they don't get reognised on the QF site.

Not surprising. All the airline booking systems are set up for IATA codes, it is a legacy thing. Most pax also only know the IATA codes.

Flightdiary is actually aimed at crew, most of them kept a diary of their flights. This is just the 21st century version.

It has been interesting living in CBR - there is obviously a waypoint for LOTS of flights just south west of us. Lots of vapour trails all emanating from around the same point.

First of all, you want to bookmark this page - it gives you all the approach and departure navaids and waypoints.

Any airfield with a VOR (VHF Omni Range) will be a waypoint, or an origin/destination. You can see the one at YSCB on Majura Rd about 1km north of the Runway 17 threshold. These are still preferred over GPS waypoints because they have been in use for so long and the established routes were run between them for a very long time.

I know roughly where you are Mark, and I reckon that waypoint you are talking about is MANDA, most arrivals from the south and west (YPAD, YMML) will arrive via MANDA as Rwy 17 is the preferred arrival runway in YSCB. You can see some of the waypoints on a number of AirServices approach procedure plates. A number of flights daily will come in that way, and it is also used as a waypoint for YMML - YSSY flights.

You will also see on that plate the Wagga (WG) VOR. Now, since the Sydney ICAO code is YSSY, and Wagga is YSWG, it kind of all starts to make sense.

I will give you a hint. Y is Australia. If the airfield VOR code is only 2 letters which is pretty every major airfield in teh country, and a few extras...then the second letter is the old ATC 'Center' that took care of it before everything went Brisbane or Melbourne; S is Sydney (YSSY, YSCB), P is Perth (YPPH, YPDN, YPAD - yes Adelaide ATC Center was done by Perth), B denoting Brisbane and M for Melbourne. The airfield VOR code is the remaining two.

Where the airfield VOR code is 3 letters (like my old home town of Mudgee which is MDG), they just use that and stick a Y in front of it. The IATA code of Mudgee is DGE just to confuse everyone

 

[Mark1966]

Not surprising. All the airline booking systems are set up for IATA codes, it is a legacy thing. Most pax also only know the IATA codes.

Yeah - we are simple folks

First of all, you want to bookmark this page - it gives you all the approach and departure navaids and waypoints.

Should have been clearer - sorry. I'm talking about jets at high altitude leaving vapour trails as they fly past YSCB not land here.

Any airfield with a VOR (VHF Omni Range) will be a waypoint, or an origin/destination. You can see the one at YSCB on Majura Rd about 1km north of the Runway 17 threshold. These are still preferred over GPS waypoints because they have been in use for so long and the established routes were run between them for a very long time.

I think I know what you are talking about there - I drive in from Gungahlin along Majura Road to the airport.

I know roughly where you are Mark, and I reckon that waypoint you are talking about is MANDA, most arrivals from the south and west (YPAD, YMML) will arrive via MANDA as Rwy 17 is the preferred arrival runway in YSCB. You can see some of the waypoints on a number of AirServices approach procedure plates. A number of flights daily will come in that way, and it is also used as a waypoint for YMML - YSSY flights.

The approach procedures you linked to are for landings from the north through the Majura Valley onto Rwy 17 if I'm reading them correctly? Is the MANDA waypoint when used for YMML - YSSY going to cover planes at altitude? Is is also used for YPAD - YSSY flights or YPPH - YSSY flights as the vapour trails are often in quick succession and without sufficient spacing to reflect only weekend YMML - YSSY flights?

You will also see on that plate the Wagga (WG) VOR. Now, since the Sydney ICAO code is YSSY, and Wagga is YSWG, it kind of all starts to make sense.

I will give you a hint. Y is Australia. If the airfield VOR code is only 2 letters which is pretty every major airfield in teh country, and a few extras...then the second letter is the old ATC 'Center' that took care of it before everything went Brisbane or Melbourne; S is Sydney (YSSY, YSCB), P is Perth (YPPH, YPDN, YPAD - yes Adelaide ATC Center was done by Perth), B denoting Brisbane and M for Melbourne. The airfield VOR code is the remaining two.

Where the airfield VOR code is 3 letters (like my old home town of Mudgee which is MDG), they just use that and stick a Y in front of it. The IATA code of Mudgee is DGE just to confuse everyone

OK, makes sense

I kinda knew Y = Australia for some reason (but they again I know our aircraft have VH registration prefixes) and I was on a board for a former ATC who was talking about the consolidation of control in BNE and MEL (oops - sorry!) so I guess I can understand that too, although it seems odd referring to former arrangements effectively.

Very interesting but I will probably stick with IATA - easier to use AND it reminds me of the 'Brand Canberra' all the time (CBR - Confident, Bold, Ready) which gives me a chuckle!

 

[Monsta_AU]

Should have been clearer - sorry. I'm talking about jets at high altitude leaving vapour trails as they fly past YSCB not land here.

Yes, those same waypoints can be used for routes also. You can also start with http://skyvector.com/?ll=-35.306944444,149.195&chart=302&zoom=3 and have a look, but note that they are very behind in their local waypoints. The main ones are there.

I think I know what you are talking about there - I drive in from Gungahlin along Majura Road to the airport.

Yep, it's a whole thing of white semicircles on posts about 6 foot out of the ground, arranged in a circle. Basically you can navigate on a 'radial' to or from it. You can dial it in and the instruments will show you is your are port or starboard of that particular line so you can navigate on the 300 degree radial away from the device.

The approach procedures you linked to are for landings from the north through the Majura Valley onto Rwy 17 if I'm reading them correctly? Is the MANDA waypoint when used for YMML - YSSY going to cover planes at altitude?

They can be, but day-to-day it is unlikely. Dependent on weather then ATC can amend the flightplan to a different set of waypoints and get pilots around weather. Or they can just radar vector them instead.

Is is also used for YPAD - YSSY flights or YPPH - YSSY flights as the vapour trails are often in quick succession and without sufficient spacing to reflect only weekend YMML - YSSY flights?

I think MANDA is used more for arriving flights from the south and west for Rwy 17. If you are seeing planes heading to YSSY at FL350 or above then they are actually probably much further away than you realise. It could be NONUP which is 48nm according to the charts. The quick rule of thumb to get KM is to double the NM figure, then take away 10% of that figure. So 48nm > 96 > 88km give or take.

OK, makes sense

Much easier to deal with once you know the tricks.

I guess I can understand that too, although it seems odd referring to former arrangements effectively.

Makes more sense when you realise that the ICAO codes were actually done under the old ATC arrangements.

Very interesting but I will probably stick with IATA - easier to use AND it reminds me of the 'Brand Canberra' all the time (CBR - Confident, Bold, Ready) which gives me a chuckle!

We all know that CBR stands for Commute By Roundabouts

 

[Mark1966]

Looking at Skyvector my guess is that it is probably Wee Jasper where the flights are converging around. That seems the most prominent waypoint in the general vicinity of where I'm thinking.

I did suspect that it wasn't local by the height and distance.

PS - Are we just talking to ourselves yet?

PPS - they can't complain about this being off-topic, fixed that

 

[gthomas04]

Looking at Skyvector my guess is that it is probably Wee Jasper where the flights are converging around. That seems the most prominent waypoint in the general vicinity of where I'm thinking.

I did suspect that it wasn't local by the height and distance.

PS - Are we just talking to ourselves yet?

PPS - they can't complain about this being off-topic, fixed that

Bloody typical, one rule for the masses and another for the masters - come the revolution and all will be sorted

 

[Mark1966]

Bloody typical, one rule for the masses and another for the masters - come the revolution and all will be sorted

Well yes, as it should be BUT

look at the thread title @gthomas04 ! See, we are on topic

 

[stillshunter]

Well yes, as it should be BUT

look at the thread title @gthomas04 ! See, we are on topic

Touche, mate, touche!

So anyone have luck tracking down some godrej for us all? Us Canberrans got buckleys of sourcing anything but Palmolive and Fauldings - or Proraso at 2x RRP at The Shaver Shop.

Sorry, to keep it on topic, I believe Canberra is the waypoint between Vanilla-Roundabouts and Death-by-Boredom.

 

[Mark1966]

Touche, mate, touche!

So anyone have luck tracking down some godrej for us all? Us Canberrans got buckleys of sourcing anything but Palmolive and Fauldings - or Proraso at 2x RRP at The Shaver Shop.

Sorry, to keep it on topic, I believe Canberra is the waypoint between Vanilla-Roundabouts and Death-by-Boredom.

There is an Indian supermarket in Gungahlin - remind me to check there on the weekend!

 

[gthomas04]

Well yes, as it should be BUT

look at the thread title @gthomas04 ! See, we are on topic

Only cause you changed the heading - bloody moderators

 

[borked]

Eeet's a conspiwacy I tells ya...
Bet the gumbyment are involved too...

 

[eggbert]

So anyone have luck tracking down some godrej for us all?

Hoping to get back into Little India in Georgetown tomorrow or Friday for another look.

 

[Mark1966]

Hey @Monsta_AU - my daughter drove me to the airport this morning.

This is the YSCB VOR we were discussing if I'm not mistaken.

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Just north of rwy 17